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#188206 - 05/04/05 10:15 PM Worship Drumming
bggowing Offline
Regular

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Canyon Lake, California
How do you feel worship drumming is different (or the same) as secular drumming?
_________________________
One of God's drummers

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#188207 - 05/04/05 11:30 PM Re: Worship Drumming
yamahammer Offline
Guru

Registered: 07/23/04
Posts: 829
Loc: Yamaha USA
From my experience, drumming is drumming.The most important thing is to play what's appropriate for the song. A lot of Christian music is very contemporary, and reaches out to the masses more than traditional hymns. The Gospel gigs I've played were no different than the R&B gigs other than the lyrics really. The great thing about using electronics is the availability of voices like Timpani, Vibes, Bells...even Thunder when you need it without having to bring in a ton of expensive instruments.

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#188208 - 05/05/05 02:37 PM Re: Worship Drumming
bggowing Offline
Regular

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 16
Loc: Canyon Lake, California
I think with contemporary worship drumming the drummer has to be willing to take more of a back-seat role than in the secular world. Where in the secular world the drummer can be in the spotlight, in the contemporary worship setting that we do the drummer is more in the background.

The drummer in a contemporary worship setting has to be willing to give up the attention and be able to finesse the song to give it just the right amount of percussion without intruding into it.

You also have to give up your pride when you want to do some licks that you know will only draw attention to yourself instead of enhancing the song. But there are also times where the proper selection of a sound will have the effect of getting the congregation to truly enter into worship (agreeing with yamahammer).

An example: Be The Centre is a slow, mystical, Celtic sounding song. I used a standard drum kit initially on my DTXpress and kept time with the song. Nothing spectacular and the drums weren't intrusive but neither did they do anything to help deepen the song.

I then switched to the Big Reverb kit and used just a single kick beat and the foot close on the hi-hat. A simple change like that made all the difference in the song. The first time I tried it during service you could visibly see the difference in the congregation. It opened up the song and people told me afterward that hearing the lone drum made them feel transported to a more intimate place.

I can't wait until I get the DTXtremes so I can expand some of the effects that I'm using. One thing is for sure, our worship leaders LOVE the Yamaha e-drums that I'm using. A LOT less stage volume, more effect, and the ability to tailor the drum volume to the song without me having to worry about if the drum is going to sound as good hitting it softly.
_________________________
One of God's drummers

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#188209 - 05/09/05 09:17 PM Re: Worship Drumming
Stix Offline
Experienced

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 71
There are both similarities and differences between playing drums for secular vs worship music. Right from the start, the biggest difference is purpose. Secular music is built around entertainment and profit; christian music is built around message and praise. As already stated, the drummer fades from the spotlight in christian music, though there are opportunities to "show your stuff" in certain situations. Christian music also is more friendly to using the range of voices/instruments and kits on board the DTXtreme. Maracas, claves, bells, etc. compliment many christian pieces of music. One thing I've noticed is that most church musicians are pretty talented, and the practice environment is disciplined. This equates to an ability to work up new songs in a relatively short period of time. It's all good...

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#188210 - 05/18/05 03:27 AM Re: Worship Drumming
WhiteHat Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 3
G'day,

I'm an aussie and new to the forums - I've been playing in churches for about 7 years now on acoustic kits but have recently bought a DTXtremeIIs and am itching to find out how it works out. I bought it because I live in an apartment complex and havn't been able to practice for the past 3 years without annoying the neighbours, there's also a space issue

because we have a fairly small church the e-kit will definately reduce the stage noise which will really add to our ability to control how the song flows. one thing that I'm concerned about is that now the drums have to be in everyone's foldback including mine - I'd rather not have to wear headphones to hear myself and am considering changing the foldback position from to my right to underneath the kit itself (because there's no bass drum to get in the way, the possibilities for moving things arround like that are greatly increased)

one thing I've also concerned about is the fact that with acoustic cymbals, you can build atmosphere in "quiet" parts of some songs by successive hits, building up and achieve different nuances of sound by the way you hit. wheras even though the DTxtremeIIs has three hit zones on two of it's cymbals, each hit merely restarts the same sound and doesn't build on the previous hit. so I'm considering putting acoustic cymbals in addition to the electronic ones.

as for how church drumming is different to secular drumming. I think the key thing is that secular drumming is a performance, whereas church drumming, especialy for "worship" songs needs to focus on both building atmosphere as well as helping the congregation to sing the song. I guess that also goes for any drumming where people are singing or dancing allong to it. it's no use doing a fantastic-sounding cross-rythmn if it confuses or distracts the people singing the song.

the cymbal problem that I mentioned above can be partially overcome with the DTXtreme kit because there's three cymbals so instead of doing an increasing roll on one cymbal you hit all three alternately or even assign cymbal soundes to the edges of tom pads or something. I think that although we're at the stage that e-kits are getting to be a viable alternative, they still have a long way to go before they can totally replace acoustic kits. having said that, the e-kits are still tools that, when used correctly, can really add something.

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#188211 - 05/18/05 03:40 AM Re: Worship Drumming
WhiteHat Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 05/18/05
Posts: 3
forgot to add:

having the mixer on the brain is a godsend. - even when outputing to mono (because we can't afford 6 DI's just at the moment) the drummer still has control over the mix! it's awesome.

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#188212 - 05/25/05 08:30 AM Re: Worship Drumming
drummerboyIIS Offline
Regular

Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 10
Worship drumming, in my opinion, can be just like any other session of drumming. It depends on the style of worship music is being played. I started playing in church. I've played several styles of worship music like contemporary gospel which compares to Pop/HipHop/R&B,(usually with large choirs) Contemporary Christian(Praise teams)which compares to soft/classic rock/country and so on.
Each set depends on the venue you are playing in. Like here in Germany, there are many churches that are small and have an average of 80-100 members so an E-Kit is perfect because an acoustic kit will usually force everyone to play and sing much louder than necessary. My church is pretty big, about 600-900 on a good day and its ran by the Air Force. As far as playing, well let's say it will depend on your music director on how hammy you can get on a particular set.

dw

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#188213 - 06/10/05 06:29 PM Re: Worship Drumming
sarnie Offline
Regular

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 49
..the main problem i find in playing at Church, other than that weekends song selection is who else is ganna be there?

when i first started it was virtually just me and keyboards with the occasional flute or recorder etc..a bit weak on the ground for a heavy rock drummer. But things move on, now we have bass, the occasional electric guitar as well as youger!!! keyboard players...we can go from say 15 people, including the singers to just 2 of us and the singers, u just never quite know!!! Gotta say that commitment is now getting far higher and a good turnout is the norm now, across a wide spectrum o ages too.

u just cant please everyone all the time. Many want more contempory worship. the cotton buds (older Ladies) want the organ, u try to please all, but just gotta remember that, yes u r here to help the worship, but that u r here yourself to worship, the one true God

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#188214 - 06/10/05 10:32 PM Re: Worship Drumming
JoeMcc Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Seattle Area
"the cotton buds (older Ladies) want the organ"

LOLOL

Same problem here but I won't go into it any deaper than that.

I will say...E-drums alone are a God send for our church building. It is an acoustic nightmare. Now if we could just get our sound guy to wake up.



JoeMcc


Edited by JoeMcc (06/10/05 10:32 PM)

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#188215 - 06/13/05 10:35 PM Re: Worship Drumming
Stix Offline
Experienced

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 71
WOW! I have to tell you about my experience this past weekend. I play for a church that owns the DTXtremeiis. We use personal monitors and headphones, which is way cool. This past weekend, we joined services with another church and I split the drumming responsibilities with their drummer. They have accoustic drums, so that's what I played. There is NO comparison! Period. End of Story. You cannot beat the flexibility of digital in being able to use different kits for different styles of music, control volume levels, and add unique percussion sounds. I'll take electonic over accoustical any day! If Yamaha will just fix the kick problem, I'll be the fan of the year!

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#188216 - 06/13/05 11:07 PM Re: Worship Drumming
JoeMcc Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Seattle Area
We use personal monitors and headphones

Any problems with the low end? It's the only complaint I have with the personal monitors. My church just bought us a couple of the roland CM-30s.

http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--ROLCM30

I love how i can mount them to a mic stand and adjust the volume. They just cant reproduce the kick. I'm ok with it but the other members like to feel it. Maybe we could try a butt kicker mounted to the bottom of the stage.

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/



JoeMcc


Edited by JoeMcc (06/13/05 11:09 PM)

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#188217 - 06/15/05 11:09 PM Re: Worship Drumming
Stix Offline
Experienced

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 71
Joe: I am not having any problem with the low-end. I don't know the brand, but we use a small, personal mixer that allows me to control the volume for about 12 different channels, and their relationships to one another. I have a channel for drums, bass, piano, keyboard, etc., plus microphones used for choir, solo's and orchestra. At first the bottom-end was lacking, but I bought a good set of headphones from Guitar Center that solved the problem. I do my own mixing - heavy on drums and bass. All of our "rhythm" instruments (drums, bass, piano, and keyboard) are hooked into this system and utilize headphones.

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#188218 - 06/15/05 11:18 PM Re: Worship Drumming
JoeMcc Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Seattle Area
Stix...

I was thinking of doing something similar. I wonder how well this will work. WE have issues with other events going on in the same building and they mess with our mixer. Also our sound guy is a kid and hes not real good with the board. So...I was thinking about mixing at the stage and sending him a single feed for the instruments. He could still mix the voices up stairs. but at least our monitors would have what we need. The monitor mix is where we really struggle.

Right now each instrument goes straight to the board....then we get one of 2 channels off the monitor bus. If hes not paying attn....which is often..i may go 2 songs with way too much guitar and no bass in my monitor.

What you guys think? What is an ideal setup. It seams there is a DVD in the yamaha store about setting up sound????

Joe Mcc

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#188219 - 06/16/05 04:47 PM Re: Worship Drumming
Stix Offline
Experienced

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 71
You're way over my head with the mixing stuff. I beleive our instrument mixing is separate from the main sound board. The board mixes the output for all instruments and mike's. I think our headphones are independent from the sound board. Does that sound reasonable? If not, I can find out more and let you know.

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#188220 - 06/16/05 05:09 PM Re: Worship Drumming
JoeMcc Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Seattle Area
Stix,

Yeah I would like to know how your getting the sounds seperate from the feed to the mixer. So you are monitoring before the mixer? We are the oposite....the board feeds us a monitor out and I hate it. Be nice to get everything set to what we like and not change it unless it needs it. Then send it to the mixer.

JoeMcc

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#188221 - 06/23/05 04:37 PM Re: Worship Drumming
JoeMcc Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Seattle Area
BTW....

Just ordered Kefax's DVD on exploring live sound...

http://tinyurl.com/djd25

Hope it's good...i see it touches churches too.



JoeMcc

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#188222 - 07/26/05 02:08 PM Re: Worship Drumming
drumdad Offline
Regular

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Reading, PA.
G'day!!! I've been playing on our Worship Team for about 6 years. In that time, I've managed to drive everyone crazy!!! We are in the process of getting approval for an e-kit. I'm looking at the DTX IIS, because of the size. It comes closest to the acoustic kit I'm playing now. As far as a difference in playing a secular gig vs. in a worship atmosphere...I think you can get caught up in the "spirit" of the song in both instances. (Obviously, the "spirit" differs between secular and worship music.) I'm at a point where I feel I can worship more when I'm behind the kit playing, than when I'm in the congregation!!
_________________________
Leroy A. Latshaw, Jr.

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#188223 - 07/26/05 05:31 PM Re: Worship Drumming
Stix Offline
Experienced

Registered: 01/06/05
Posts: 71
You will love the e-kit!

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#188224 - 07/26/05 06:02 PM Re: Worship Drumming
drumdad Offline
Regular

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Reading, PA.
I'm really anxious about this kit. I got to briefly play it at a Sam Ash music store. It feels good. Everyone that I spoke to said that the pads would be like a practice pad. They didn't feel like that at all. We're waiting for our church to approve the purchase of it.
_________________________
Leroy A. Latshaw, Jr.

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#188225 - 07/26/05 08:42 PM Re: Worship Drumming
JoeMcc Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 380
Loc: Seattle Area
You AND the congregation will like the E-drums. The down side is you have to have a sound system that can handle it. We use Yamaha S115s. They do alright for our small building. Someday I hope we can get some subs :P

Joe Mcc

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#188226 - 07/26/05 11:21 PM Re: Worship Drumming
drumdad Offline
Regular

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Reading, PA.
Thanks, Joe!! I think we have a pretty good set of speakers to put them through. I told our Sound Tech that, when we do get the kit, I want to take Sunday afternoon to put them together and sound check them. We have our practices on Thursday nights. So, that should give us plenty of time to get answers to potential questions from Sunday afternoon to Thursday night. I think this forum will actually be a FASTER means of getting the answers we need!! There are alot of people, like you, who are familiar with the hardware and the procedures for getting it up and running. And you've probably already gone through the headaches that we'll experience!! Thanks again, Joe!! I'll keep you posted as to when we get them, and what happens. Leroy.
_________________________
Leroy A. Latshaw, Jr.

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#188227 - 08/03/05 05:39 PM Re: Worship Drumming
sarnie Offline
Regular

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 49
..your sound eng is ganna love u, he only needs 1 or maybe 2 if u want stero for your outputs upto his desk.. then send u a feed back via a monitor channel...if this can be seperate to every1 else's in the music grp, all the better as he can set things up just as u like it....ie that recorder (read any other instrument) player u just dont wanna hear.

problem i had is i wanted to be able to adjust some of the mix, especially the drums in my own monitor without effecting the overall sound. so this is how i run my monitoring system. probally not the best way, but its all i can think of at the moment.

i run a feed from the output on the kits brain to an input on a 'Behringer eurorack mixer' these r pretty cheap to buy - i use a UB502 the smallest, but if u wanna spend more and get more go ahead.
i take a feed from the mixing desk/monitor to the input on the UB502 - make sure u dont have any drums on this mix or u will loop the drum sound and feed back badly.
i then run an output from the UB502 to the mixing desk. i have set the main output volume at about half, and taped this down so i dont accidently up it, which will up the drum volume out front!!!!
what this all means is, the sound guys get my feed, which they mix for outfront....i get a monitor feed of all the other instruments (NO DRUMS) i can up this volume anyway i want via the UB502 volume and because i have fed the kit into an input i can then mix the drum volume into this mix at any volume i wish without it effecting anything else..and as i like the volume loud, probably louder than the congregation and the mixing guys, i plug 'decent' headphones in the headphone socket on the UB502, and live in my own little world!!!!

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#188228 - 08/04/05 09:58 AM Re: Worship Drumming
drumdad Offline
Regular

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 10
Loc: Reading, PA.
That sounds like an awesome monitor setup. I'll print this out and give it to our sound guy. Not sure if he would have a mixer. Since it's taking so long to get the money approved for this, I'm afraid of asking for more to get a mixer. Our Sound Man will be interested in this setup. Thanks for the tip. Take care!! Leroy.
_________________________
Leroy A. Latshaw, Jr.

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#188229 - 08/04/05 02:36 PM Re: Worship Drumming
sarnie Offline
Regular

Registered: 06/05/05
Posts: 49
..the UB502 is about 30 quid over here, say $50 dollars, i bought it myself so that i can use the same setup when playing gigs with the band im in...take it out or count it as part of your Church giving..

God bless

steve

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#188230 - 08/22/05 02:02 PM Re: Worship Drumming
TribalHeartBeat Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3
Worship Drumming.

Im a newbiew to the site but not a newbie to drums.

Well lets separate a few things here to discuss.

Secular Drumming - Although this is what'the world' does, this can still be done unto God, since the Bible tells us to do all things unto Gods glory. Check our Greg Bissonette - a born again drummer, Ive never heard of him drumming in Church though.

Drumming in a Worship Team - This is different, yes, as someone said - that the drummer takes a backseat - I think that is not necessarilly the case. The drummer must be 'under' the worship leader - having a good relationship and be submissive. Knowing when to sit back and keep time and knowing when to be more creative - this takes self control and usually experience and discernment of the Holy Spirit. I used to think like this ' I dont want to be a distraction, and SHOW OFF, after all its about God'. Since then I have matured, do you think God cares if all the drummers in the world know how to do single handed buzz stroke roles? Not a chance - worship comes from the Heart. However if God has given you the talent to be skillful, mature and humble in what you do - and you dont do to the best of your ability - then I dont think thats pleasing to God either, afterall We are made to glorify him.

This leads me to the last chategory, and the one I strive for and want other younger drummers to aim for.

Be a Worshipping Drummer - I know countless musicians, never midn drummers - who lay in Church, but dont 'Worship'. Don't be scared to try new things, or to even make mistakes, most people dont notice anyway. God doesn't mind mistakes. Be confident in what God had gifted you to do. I know the Holy Spirit has had me do things - that the 'drummer' within me says - this sounds naff, but the spirit man within me - knows that the Lord is doing something in the hearts and minds of people.

Sonically the drums are a powerful intrument, when you are young to the drums - sitting behind a kit inffornt of people is one of the most self conscious things to do. I used to be very timid on the drums, but as I matured as a Christian and as a drummer - I learned to control the dynamics of the drums - rousing tempo's and simple bass drumms pattern on the 1 and 4 beats. There are more elements to Worshiping behind the drums than say playig in a pub(see my first point though). Its not about performance EVER. if it is to you - then your missing out.

Leading worship in a conegregation is a serious responsibility so remember Glorify God, watch for pride, dont worry about mistakes, be expressive but controlled, be submissive to Church Leadership and Glorify the Lord.



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#188231 - 08/31/05 04:06 AM Re: Worship Drumming
sprouse4 Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 4
Hello, I have been a drummer for eight years and had lots drum sets. I purchased a DTXPRESS111 drum set and have no clue what settings to use in church what would you say, thanks,

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#188232 - 08/31/05 10:29 AM Re: Worship Drumming
TribalHeartBeat Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3
If you mean by settings for 'sound' info - I would talk to your sound team if you have one and see what works for your venue.

I havent got my kit yet but I am awaiting delivery.

As for if you mean sounds as in noises. It depends on the song and how you do worship.
I also have a handsonic which I use in some worship songs. I am used to flowing from one into the other - so I normally chose a voice that is generic and will fit - the song, the volume and what other intruments are there, no use sounding like something else, bring something else to the party. For certain tunes , i sit and listen to whats going on, in practices or sound checks and if you are familiar with your equipment you go - oh that blues kit would go excellently. I dont have my electric kit as of yet, but I think a rule I will adopt is not to have a different for every different song - there needs to be continuity and only on set ones will I differ. Im speaking from the experience of my hand sonic here. Like at Christmas time when we do carols - I normally delve into using tympani sounds. Cymbals I have found are dissapoinitng in my handsonic, but cause I have it all together - I usually keep my stick on my lap and play what suits.

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#188233 - 08/31/05 12:52 PM Re: Worship Drumming
sprouse4 Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 08/31/05
Posts: 4
thanks, I'll see what works thanks a million godbless!!!!!!

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#188234 - 07/16/06 01:02 AM Re: Worship Drumming
robertmar Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 1
It is probable the Aviom System. It it totally cool. Not enough room to explain it hear but it has helped us clean up our stage noise considerably. Definitly worth looking into..

http://www.aviom.com/dspSolutionsPersonalMixersOverview.cfm?cat=MonitorMixing&sec=Solutions

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#188235 - 11/15/06 08:09 PM Re: Worship Drumming
SEA Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 11/07/06
Posts: 204
In reply to:

I think with contemporary worship drumming the drummer has to be willing to take more of a back-seat role than in the secular world. Where in the secular world the drummer can be in the spotlight, in the contemporary worship setting that we do the drummer is more in the background.

The drummer in a contemporary worship setting has to be willing to give up the attention and be able to finesse the song to give it just the right amount of percussion without intruding into it.




The main thing is to be lead of the Lord in how you play

Drums are great for warfare and I have played with anointed drummers who know when to open up and when to lay back.

My main instrument is piano/keys and when the Spirit plays through me... that's what breaks the yokes!

Praise HIM!
SEA

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#188236 - 06/11/07 05:07 PM Re: Worship Drumming
hurwins@aol.com Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 06/10/07
Posts: 6
It's all about what you "feel" while drumming, it's pretty much the same music culturally with different lyrics and a more defined purpose. I find myself playing gospel tunes as well as R&B, soul,funk, pop,blues and jazz. Unfortunately I only had one semester of band in 1972, only to quit to play sports, (I wanted to be Dr, "J"). I always wanted a set of drums over the years but no money or no time. So this year I fullfilled my 30+ year passion by buying a set of mapex from a kid who worked for me, then a couple of weeks later a set of DTXPLORER which I play pretty much every day for the last six months. Being a freelance DJ in the past helped as far as finding good tunes to practice on. It has been great playing, at 47 years old I wish I had started years ago, however we must live the hand that life has dealt us. Happy drumming everybody!

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#543382 - 03/01/15 12:39 PM Re: Worship Drumming [Re: WhiteHat]
jule Offline
Newcomer

Registered: 03/01/15
Posts: 1
Hi,jule!!
From my experience, drumming is drumming.The most important thing is to play what's appropriate for the song.Most important part song this forum. Everybody Find the most amazing birthday gift visit at birthday gifts for him.

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#758220 - 05/12/18 03:49 AM Re: Worship Drumming [Re: JoeMcc]
chenlina Offline
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Registered: 11/29/17
Posts: 557
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#758384 - 05/18/18 07:25 AM Re: Worship Drumming [Re: SEA]
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#761464 - 08/01/18 01:57 AM Re: Worship Drumming [Re: JoeMcc]
chenlina Offline
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#761655 - 08/01/18 01:00 PM Re: Worship Drumming [Re: JoeMcc]
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#765315 - 10/16/18 06:45 AM Re: Worship Drumming [Re: Stix]
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